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Well, all right, I guess, let me start,
because people don't really know,

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you know, people tend to look at, you
know, people they think are successful

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and say, well, you know, they
were, that success came easy,

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or this, you know, they try to understand
how do successful people become

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successful. And I'll start off
a little bit about, you know,

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where I grew up and how, you
know, how I view the world.

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I grew up in a small farm in the
Midwest with blue-collar steelworker

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parents, and we were always
practical, hands-on type people,

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which prompted me to get into, to like
to figure out how the world works,

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how to fix things, build things, make
things, and naturally I went into

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engineering. So I, I studied engineering
all the way through the PhD when I

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was at Stanford, and I was really
fortunate to be at the right place at the

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right time. It was about 1993, Stanford,
and the internet just came out.

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And I just finished all my coursework
for my PhD, and all I had to do was my

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thesis. I was in entrepreneurial, and
all of a sudden this internet came

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out, and I'm like, well,
what can I do with it?

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And so I started the very first
internet development company.

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But the problem was, when you go
to talk about what you're doing,

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nobody knows what the internet was.

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And so I had to figure out, how do I
build some websites so that I could

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show them to other people? And I just
got out of a relationship and such,

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and I just said, well, why don't I try
to bring people together for dating?

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You know, back then, the
only thing, if you wanted,

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if you were single, and you
wanted to find other people,

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you can go to friends and such,
but as most grad students know,

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you don't have a lot of friends
when you're a grad student.

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You're focusing on studies.

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And the only thing you can do
is like newspaper ads and such.

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And I said, well, you know,

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the internet's perfect for this.

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You can, instead of having three lines
of text, you can have a full profile.

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And I was fortunate enough to create
one of the very first online dating

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companies, completely free at that point.

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But over the next 12, 13, 14
years, I was able to build that up,

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being a little bit the
first mover advantage.

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You're the first site out there.

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And you can grow that way.

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But over 12 years, we had several
hundred million people on the website.

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And I went from a kid in a dorm
room to a 200-person company,

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in which there's always
challenges going on.

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And you can imagine, anybody who's like
studying engineering and ends up at

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Stanford, you have to have a certain
kind of intensity of what you do.

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You know, we're driven type people.

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We're always trying to succeed. You
know, you probably understand the type

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of person who wants to get good
grades and wants to perform,

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you know, do all this stuff.
And when I ran the company,

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I was, you know, go, go,
go, this type of thing.

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And what I found at some point, at
some point, I made plenty of money.

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I had what I call enough. But
I was, I was, I had nothing,

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nothing outside my life other than work.

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And I was, you know, 70,
80 hours a week type work.

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And I didn't know that all of a sudden
I realized that there was no joy in

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what I was doing. You know, at first
it was fun to build and this and that.

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But after 12 years, it secretly started
weighing on me to a point where I

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didn't get any joy going to work.

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And I just, I had to get away.

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I had to get away. So at 39, I decided
to sell the company and walk away.

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But what happens, I
mean, I'm just rambling.

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I'll just talk a little
more. But what happens when,

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after you go from, you know, 200
person company, you're the guy.

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You're the, you make
decisions. You go, go, go.

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And the next week I'm at,
at, at the supermarket.

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And the only question that I
can answer is paper or plastic,

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you know, and my whole world changed.

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You know, I went from, you
know, on one level, you know,

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top of my game to very, very quiet.

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And then I realized that it took, it
took many years before I kind of got

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through that, that phase where, you
know, it's, it's hard to retire at 39.

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No matter, you say, oh, I
wish I could retire at 39.

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But if you're, you know, all of a sudden
you realize everything you do from

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that moment on, it pales
in comparison to what you,

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success you had. And so I, I
challenge, I went through a lot of,

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a lot of years trying to,
trying to figure out, you know,

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what is success? You know,
it's not, at some point,

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once you have money, the
money is not the thing.

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And money has never
really been my motivation.

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It was always trying to help people.

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You know, I grew up in a family where
it's all about public service and it's

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a lot, it's a lot more fun to build
things for other people when you serve

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them. But all of a sudden
I have nobody to serve.

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You know, I'm, I'm now just
Andrew and it was very quiet.

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And, you know, I struggled for many
years to kind of complete my education.

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You know, one thing when you
go to school, like, well,

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by the time I graduated, had my
PhD, I had 30 employees at the time.

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And so I went straight from school to
work all the way through and never had

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any, any other opportunities other than
tech and business and all this type

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of stuff, which it's, so I took several
years to kind of fulfill the left,

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left part of my brain where I
started to get more complete.

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I studied a lot of, more of the humanities
and learning about how people are

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and had more time to kind of
understand and observe the world.

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And then, you know, I was
drifting around for a while until,

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it was about six, seven years later,
I was, I was looking for a new year's

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resolution because, you know,
I'm a driven type guy and I can,

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maybe, maybe I'll get on my funk if I,

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have a, have a purpose.
And so I have a challenge.

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So I was talking to my friend
and, and she said, Andrew,

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why don't you learn
something worth remembering?

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And I, that appealed to me as
somebody who likes to learn,

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you know, and I said, so, and
I, I, I always, always had,

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an eye for beauty. I, I mean,
I, you know, from a sunset to a,

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a nice hike in the, in the nature,
you know, I, or even just the,

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the great,

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artists of the past, you
know, I had an affinity.

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I said, why not challenge
myself to learn how to paint?

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And just my, my personal nature, I
said, okay, I'm going to paint one

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painting a day, every day for a year.

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And that was my first challenge.

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But what I, what I found is, you know,
as most, most creative people and,

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photographers are no,
you know, no different.

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You're always trying to
find something beautiful to,

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to, to take a photo of.

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That's right. But when you're,
when you're painting every day,

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you have to always be at a
lookout for something beautiful.

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And,

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after a few weeks of
that, you know, I started,

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getting into the, the
rhythm of, of painting.

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And one thing about painting is that,
you don't have time for any regrets.

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You don't have any, like, a lot,
a lot of things that cause people,

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pain and suffering is regrets of the
past or anxiety of fears of the future.

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And totally agree.

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Totally agree. And what I, what, what
I learned later is that the simple

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process of slowing down, looking
at what you want to try to paint.

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I, I'm a realist painter. So, it's
similar to a photographer where it's

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like, I take a photo and
then try to, try to paint it.

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You know, I try to paint what I see.

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And,

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no matter what your whole
life is going on in your,

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in the matter what you're,
what you're thinking in life,

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when it comes down to, to focusing
in the moment, you are doing what's

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called active meditation.

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So, the only thing you worry
about is getting the right color,

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putting it in the right space, and you
do this for hours every single day.

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And I realized over time that
it gave me a new identity.

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You know, back when I was running the
company, my identity was business guy

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or, you know, success, you know,
growth and all that stuff and problem

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solving and all that. And then the
years went, went by that I was like,

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what am I, if I'm not doing something,
if I'm not, if not giving or

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creating, serving.

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And, and if all of a sudden
when I realized to slow down,

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I no longer had regrets of the past.

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I started realizing that I was being
healed from inside by the simple act of

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slowing down and being,

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being able to be more kind to yourself.

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And over a period of that first year
was such, such an uplifting experience.

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I decided to do it for a second
year and I did, you know,

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so I ultimately painted three or
four or 500 paintings of the time.

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But more importantly, I realized that
there's happiness that you can get

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that's unrelated to,

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most of the things that other
people are, think of are success.

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Career,

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finance,

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it's a moment of, quiet that
gets you to say, I'm okay,

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I'm good, I'm happy. You know, and
that was, something I found was very

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powerful. What an impressive life journey.

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I think you just talk about success,
search and discover and the healing

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and then became a calling, right?

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So like it's, yeah, I mean, this
deeply resonates with me and

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you've achieved, I mean, like as an
entrepreneur, you've achieved what many

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people would consider the
ultimate definition of success.

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Right. At some point success
was no longer sustainable.

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And what were you really searching
for during those years of intense

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achievement? How did your understanding
of success change over time?

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Well, I mean, I, I've, I'm
never one who's, you know,

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chased money for success or,
you know, I always wanted to,

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success to me was, being useful.

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Right. And that made, you
get so much joy to, like,

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what, it wasn't necessarily how much
money I was making on these websites.

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And how, you know, how much
benefit they got from that.

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And that was really, fulfilling.

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Right. You wake up, oh, you know,
oh, people are, are using what you're

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doing. You're, you're,
you're, you have value.

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You know, a lot of our
value is based on, you know,

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a lot of people. And I, I've
learned that put a lot of,

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you know, success with them
might be, oh, that they,

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they got a degree or they got,
they got a high position job or,

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but ultimately I learned that success is,

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is being at peace with yourself.

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Right. Because I, and one of the
things I really learned from my,

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my time kind of in my depressive
years was, having greater sympathy for

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other people who are going through that.

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And I've learned, you know, that, you
know, almost a third of people have

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depressive times in their life.

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And a lot of people are
struggling to find meaning.

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And I realized that's, that's
a more universal thing.

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And I have, I've been so blessed to
have those dark years in my life because

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it gave me perspective on how,
how other people are suffering.

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And that's kind of led me,

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now maybe eight years
since I started all that,

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to create, this, this art
foundation because I said,

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well, maybe if,

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if art, the, the process of making
art helped me, I realized how valuable

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that is to others. And I thought, well,

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let's see what, what, see what,
what could happen if I put some,

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serious, time and resources into
trying to create an art experience,

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for people here. Wow.

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Yeah. That's really inspiring.

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-hmm. One of the most difficult things
in life can be losing an identity.

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We've spent decades, to build, right?

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So when burnout and depression brought
your successful careers to an end

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and the, the identity you would around
that success suddenly fell away,

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what was left when you stand in the
supermarket, who were you when you were

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no longer Andrew, the entrepreneur?

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Well, unfortunately in my case,
it was ruminating on your failure.

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Cause when I sold the
company, cause I, oh, sorry.

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The thing that led me to sell
the company there originally is,

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is one you lost. I lost
joy and I lost joy,

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because I was, I was afraid of all the,
all the difficulties and challenges

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and problems. And I just, oh,
I just wanted to get away.

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And afterwards you're like, and, and
after that kind of stress drops and

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you're able to breathe, you
know, a couple of three,

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four weeks later, you start
going, what, what an idiot I was.

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Why did I, why did I sell this company?

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I could have just kind of had
some therapy and gotten better,

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you know? And then for years and years
you had this regret and regret is a

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really a dangerous caustic
thing is you might have like,

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oh, if you were in a relationship
that broke up and didn't work out,

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you have, oh, I wish I
did something better.

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And you just, that, that
regret thing is a very,

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acidic thing to your soul.
And I think over time, I,

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I, figuring out how your, your success
is not related to how much is in your

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bank or what people,

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perhaps even think about you.

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It's internal.

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It's, it's, do I like myself, you know?

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And I think that,

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having an identity that transcends,

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external trappings, you know, successful
business person is one identity.

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But underneath that, the external,

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external,

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perspective, there's the
person underneath that.

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And that person is just, just a
human being, just like everyone else.

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We live in a, in a crazy society,

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in which,

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people can amass great
fortunes as tech people.

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That you can do these things that,
you know, a hundred years ago,

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you know, I would definitely not be
able to, to have the success I have.

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I, but I'm the same person.

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So I realized how, how much circumstances
played a role of getting someone's

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identity. And it's so tempting
to embrace that identity and say,

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oh yeah, I'm that, that person.

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And you don't have time to develop
who you really are until you have

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challenges in your life. When
you get, you, you, you know,

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in my case, I walked away from the
company, but I could have been laid off.

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You know, a lot of people go through that.

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Maybe scary in the future that we're
going to have some layoffs in certain,

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certain fields. And a lot of people
are going to be facing that reality

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where their identity is somehow stripped.

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Then who are they? And so like my
experience might be something that other

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people can, can relate to.

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Like when, when what they thought
was, who they are is no longer there.

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I definitely can relate
to what you just said.

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Yeah. And you also mentioned
about the depression, right?

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The seven and eight years
of depression, searching,

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trying to understand
what had happened to you.

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You also talk about you create,

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discovered painting, right?

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And then you started one painting a
day and created 365 paintings in a

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single year. Wow.

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That was just so impressive.

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But at what point did you realize
that you were simply just making art,

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but art was actually
helping to remake you?

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Well, you know, it grows on you.

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Like at first you're just
trying to get something that,

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that other people than, than
just your mother would like.

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You know, you grow up, I'm really
putting your paintings on the,

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on the, on the refrigerator.

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My purpose was simply just to
try to create something pretty.

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And that was, that gave me so much joy.

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It was remarkably fast.
Within a month or two,

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I started feeling a different identity.

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My identity was to get up every
day and try to capture beauty.

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And that was such a
fulfilling thing that I just,

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that I, that I was
secretly growing inside.

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And then now I, now I look at my,
that period of my time with so much,

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happiness because I was, okay.

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I, I was, I was becoming more fulfilled.

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I was,

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and that, I think that's
changed my perspective.

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Like today, I, I don't really know what
my identity is other than to try to

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build things that other people
can value and get value from.

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And that's,

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it's, it's great because I,
I'm no longer limited to what,

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a title or a description might
be because I'm just Andrew.

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Wow. Wow. That's really, really great.

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Yeah. And I feel deeply inspired that
art became a source of healing for

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you. And what was even more
remarkable is your own healing became

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a calling, a desire to help
others to reconnect with beauty,

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meaning and with one another.

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So when did you, begin to see
that it was no longer just about

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your own journey, but about
something much larger than yourself?

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Well, I think the first thing
to realize that I realized is,

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is that suffering is pervasive.

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There are so many people who are
struggling in all sorts of different ways.

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You know, financial is just one
of them, emotional challenges.

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Challenges and I realized I had some,
I, I was connected to the greater,

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greater community of, of, of
sufferers out there and realize,

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okay, I'm not alone.

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You know, other people
are, are, are challenged.

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And, and the more I started
talking about my art experience,

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I talked to other creative people and
things I said resonated with them.

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So I, I knew that it's not just me.

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I just happened to, you know, for
me, it was, it was very healing and

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therapeutic. And then I realized, I
talked to a lot of other people and I

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realized that art gave them a joy as well.

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And like, there's a reason why
people like being creative.

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And I said, okay, well,

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what can I do to help leverage that?

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Or how can I participate in a larger
way, in trying to bring these type of

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creative experiences to others?

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00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,010
-hmm. And that's what's the
original, that's what the original,

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that's, that's how I started
the Condor Art Foundation was,

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was an experiment. How can I use
some of the resources that I have to,

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officially give back, happiness to
others and let them experience the

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process that I've had.-hmm.

315
00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:25,900
Yeah. I like what you said,
we are not alone, right?

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So we are here for each other.

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And it seems that you have,

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been trying to connect with people, right?

319
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-hmm. So we are building systems
that connecting people digitally.

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And now, like by creating spaces
that connect people on human level,

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00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,510
right?-hmm. So,

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00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:52,240
looking ahead, what kind of impact
do you hope the Condor Art Foundation

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00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,570
and your work will have on Seattle
and the broader art community?

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00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:02,820
Guess, you know, what's my goal with
all the things I do here is to give the

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people of the Seattle area something
special, something to say that they're

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loved. Because when artists of
all types create their arts,

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they're doing it typically because
they want to send a love letter to the

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recipient of that. And what I'm trying
to do here is bring together other

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artists and leverage their enthusiasm
and their joy and to try to bring

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art together, art with a
specific purpose in-hmm.

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00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,860
It's like we have multiple locations.

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In this location here, we specialize
in art that has a human connection in

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it. So they're mostly paintings of
people in different phases of life.

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And you can, by just observing them,
you can have a quiet time to have a

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relationship with the artist. Because
the artist is trying to tell you

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something for each of these paintings.

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And by able to quiet, by spend a half
hour walking around and looking at

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them, just that fact reminds you
that you're connected to people.

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And you're absolutely correct that
art has the ability to bring people

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together because nothing of
their background is important

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as compared to how they
feel in that moment.

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And so what I found is people
from all sorts of backgrounds,

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even political differences, melt
away when you're standing in front of

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beauty. And it just has this really
amazing power to remind us who we are

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inside. Wow, yeah.

346
00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:35,240
I really like your vision to build a
broad and inclusive art community for

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00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:41,080
artists, right? So, but what are
the biggest challenges to see

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in turning that vision into reality?

349
00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:48,830
And given our Asian
photography association,

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you know, we share very
many of the same values.

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00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:58,100
And what are the opportunities do you
see that we can work together and to

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contribute to that vision?

353
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:04,960
Wow. I think every creative person
has the ability to make somebody

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00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,720
understand life and to break
through some of their problems.

355
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,370
Even just, you know, seeing
something beautiful is key on that.

356
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:18,920
But I was trying to shift because
you're talking about the Asian art

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community, the Asian photography
community specifically.

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And I think we all have a role to
play because everybody has different

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perspectives. Photographers have the
ability to see things in completely

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different perspectives
than what you normally see.

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And that's how they're able to explain
things differently than perhaps even

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traditional artists have.

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Because you're capturing a
moment of feeling and a texture.

364
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And that's a way to communicate a story.

365
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,220
Right. And because photography is
one of the most challenging art forms

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because it's so, on one
level, so restrictive.

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Because you get whatever the photons
hit the camera is what you get.

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And you have to, like, through
that limitation, find creative and

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interesting ways to view the world in.

370
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:14,470
And I think that's, but as far as what
they can offer to the general public.

371
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,560
Right. And to your work specifically.

372
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:23,000
Well, specifically, obviously, we
try to give platforms and venues

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for all types of creative people.

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00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:31,710
So we're really excited to have our
art magazine called PublicDisplay .art.

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00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:33,940
It's been around for
three or four years now.

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00:21:33,980 --> 00:21:38,780
And it reaches out into the greater
Seattle community to find artists who

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00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:40,500
are telling interesting stories.

378
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:43,420
And we find that, you know, it
comes from amazingly just diverse

379
00:21:43,460 --> 00:21:46,020
backgrounds, different
cultures, different ethnicities,

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00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:47,830
different worldviews.

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And putting them all together is a
way to kind of show that we're all

382
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,040
connected. Because when you
go see an art exhibition,

383
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,720
you get into their world.

384
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:02,080
Right. And it's a way to get behind
the scenes and understand the soul of

385
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,150
the people behind. And when
you see beautiful photography,

386
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,560
it's the same thing. You
understand the soul of the artist.

387
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,280
Yes. And I think that's to understand
we're all together trying to find

388
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,150
beauty, truth, and love. Yeah.

389
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,740
Well, thank you so much for sharing
your perspectives and also the

390
00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:20,300
impressive life journey.

391
00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:24,500
I know like we already had a
long conversation, but if I may,

392
00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:29,000
I still have one last slightly
personal question for you.

393
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,740
Okay. So if you could have an
opportunity to sit down with your younger

394
00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:35,650
self, the engineer,

395
00:22:36,460 --> 00:22:37,550
the entrepreneur,

396
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,450
very successful businessman, right?

397
00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:47,240
And the young man who focused so much

398
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,610
on achievements, what would you tell him?

399
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,230
Well, the first thing I
do is give him a big hug.

400
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,840
Right? Because everyone needs that.

401
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,540
They just say, it's going to be okay.

402
00:22:59,580 --> 00:23:00,580
Love.

403
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,980
The key message I think everyone should
know is that something that says,

404
00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:09,420
this too will pass. That says whatever
challenges you have and whatever

405
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:11,650
things, it's going to be okay.

406
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,020
A lot of times the biggest thing you
need to know is that you're loved,

407
00:23:16,060 --> 00:23:17,650
you take care, it's going to be alright.

408
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:20,340
You know, I could say
we all have that regret.

409
00:23:20,380 --> 00:23:22,310
I wish I did this and that,
something differently.

410
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:28,380
But I think one of my messages
would be is that it's okay to have

411
00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:33,200
things that you might have wanted to
have done differently because they're

412
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,660
going to give you
perspective in the future.

413
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:41,650
So treat even adversity and
problems as a gift from the maker.

414
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:43,940
Wow. Thank you.

415
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,140
Thank you so much, Andrew.

416
00:23:45,180 --> 00:23:51,120
I really enjoyed our conversation
and I'm deeply grateful to have this

417
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,190
opportunity to learn from you.

418
00:23:53,620 --> 00:23:57,840
I also want to thank you and the
Conru Art Foundation for the generous

419
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,280
support of our Asian Photography
Association and for opening the doors of

420
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,770
this beautiful ArtLove
Salon to our community.

421
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:10,960
Absolute pleasure. Thank you. So
you know, photography captures human

422
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,620
experiences. Art connect human soul and
the community give that connection a

423
00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:21,900
place to live. So we hope this conversation
can be the beginning of an even

424
00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:26,500
stronger collaboration between the
Conru Art Foundation and our Asian

425
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,250
Photography Association.

426
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:33,080
Let's work together to create and
share beauty and foster meaningful

427
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,060
connections and build a vibrant
art community in Seattle.

428
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:38,540
That's wonderful. Thank you.

429
00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:39,790
Thank you so much.